Indeed, the project came from a Māori legend that whales once roamed the land and were BFFs with kauri trees, but then got separated. The project was based on the supposition that bringing tree and whale back together again could not only revive their erstwhile friendship but also save the sick trees. (I can guarantee you here that they’re not talking about evolution of the trees and whales from a common ancestor, nor about terrestrial ancestors of whales.)
A quote from the initiative:
Māori whakapapa [genealogy] describes how the kauri and tohorā (sperm whale) are brothers, but they were separated when the tohorā chose the ocean over the forest. In this research area we looked at how this connection could possibly help save the kauri from kauri dieback disease.
The team was led by Matua Tohe Ashby and investigated rongoā (traditional medicine) solutions for kauri dieback. This involved tohorā, karakia and mōteatea, and tied into the second Oranga research project: Te reo o te waonui a Tāne. The team also traind kauri communities in rongoā solutions to help save their rākau (trees).
Here’s the video linked to Ashby’s name:
Click to view
I called this project “mishegass”, a transliteration of the Yiddish word for “silliness” or “craziness”, and also used the English “nonsense”. How could I not mock such an endeavor, for doesn’t basing a funded project on a ludicrous myth fully deserve mockery? That is, unless you are a taxpaying New Zealander, in which case it should make you mad.
But my criticism also irritated a Māori journalist, who wrote me an email yesterday:
Hello Jerry
I am a journalist in New Zealand for the Southern Cross News I have recently read your article on Mātauranga Māori and would like to ask you a few questions
Have you ever been to New Zealand ?
Have you experienced Mātauranga Māori or was your research online?
Are you aware of the Pre-Polynesian Civilisation conspiracy theory and have you commented on this topic?
Do you have a bias towards Western Science and dismiss indigenous science?
Was colonisation an overwhelmingly positive event for Māori ?
Do you believe non-Māori should control the destiny of Mātauranga Māori
Joe Trinder | Editor
I hadn’t heard of the Southern Cross News (SCN), but it appears to be.a Māori-centric New Zealand website, and Joe Trinder is clearly of Māori ancestry, describing himself on “X” as “Woke Elite Maori of the highest order.”
As you can see, Trinder’s questions are loaded ones, and though I was tempted to respond, I saw no point, for there was already an article in the SCN, written by one Dr. Rawiri Waretini-Karena, criticizing my own critique and defending indigenous ways of knowing and the usefulness of whale songs, bones, and oil at curing kauri blight. Waretini-Karena himself is described at IGI Global as
. . . a current Post Doc Research Fellow Recipient lecturer and researcher at Te Whare Waananga o Awa nuiaarangi Indigenous University in Whakatane. His qualifications include a PhD Indigenous Philosophy, 2014 Te Whare Wananga o Awanuiarangi, a Master of Arts Commercial Music 2010 WINTEC, and a Bachelor of Applied Social Science- Maaori Counselling 2004 WINTEC. He has spent the last 20 years in the education field.
He also has a TedX talk which he notes not only that he was a convicted murderer, but that (according to the caption), he
. . . . graduated in 2014 with a PhD Doctorate of Philosophy in Indigenous Studies and was the recipient of three prestigious doctoral scholarship awards for his research into transforming Māori experiences of historical intergenerational trauma.
Waretini-Karena doesn’t appear to have any formal scientific training. I won’t dismiss his critique because of that, but it does give us some understanding of his failure to understand modern science and how it differs from indigenous “ways of knowing”.
I got the link to Waretini-Karena’s article in SC from a Kiwi colleague, but the bizarre thing is that the article kept appearing and disappearing on the SC website for reasons unknown. (It wasn’t my browser, for the vanishing post also vanished in New Zealand.) The second time this happened, my colleague made a pdf of the article so it couldn’t be permanently removed. Below a screenshot of the article, and if it appears again I’ll put up a working link to the piece.
UPDATE: The link is working again! Well, blow me down, hearties: I have no idea why it keeps being active and inactive but you can see it here, but capture a copy if you want to save it.
I checked this morning and the link is still dead and the critique is gone. But I’ve put the entire article below from the pdf saved by a colleague.
Here’s the short article; the text is indented and my comments are flush left. There was no link to my original piece nor even my name given as the author. From Waretini-Karina
Introduction:
The recent article critiquing the “Whale Song” project, a government-funded initiative aimed at revitalizing kauri trees using Māori knowledge, exemplifies a persistent problem in Western engagement with Mātauranga Māori: a fundamental misunderstanding of its core principles and its historical context.
The article is titled:
The author’s dismissal of the project as “ludicrous” and “nonsense” is not only disrespectful but also indicative of a narrow, reductionist view of knowledge. This dismissal stems from a Western perspective that prioritizes empirical evidence and scientific methodology as the sole measures of validity, failing to acknowledge the inherent limitations of such approaches in understanding and appreciating the complexities of Māori knowledge.
Mātauranga Māori [MM] is not simply a collection of “legends and anecdotes,” as the author suggests. It is a dynamic, evolving system of knowledge, practices, and beliefs that have been developed and refined over generations through observation, experimentation, and deep connection to the natural world. It operates on a holistic and interconnected understanding of the universe, where all things are intrinsically linked and interdependent.
This is of course a distortion of what I’ve written. I’ve noted that there is some empirical trial-and-error knowledge in MM (but also a passel of legend, myth, religion, and instruction about how to live), though I’m not aware of any explicit experimentation, at least not how modern science conceives of an “experiment”. The defense continues:
The article’s assertion that “there is no underlying ‘wisdom’ or scientific data suggesting that sounds played to ailing trees could cure them” reveals a lack of understanding of the potential benefits of sound therapy, a field of study that has shown promising results in various areas, including plant growth and stress reduction.
Yes, sound waves have been shown to affect plant growth in some studies, but this conclusion is controversial (see here).
I don’t doubt that some stressed humans can be soothed by music, but the issue at hand is not that: it’s whether reuniting infected kauri trees with the oil, bones, and songs of their ancient buddies can cure the blight. Beyond the author’s anecdotal claim, I argue that it’s not worth spending the money investigating this theory, which, in the end, is based on a palpably false legend: that whales once roamed the earth (as whales, not their ancestors), became friends with kauri trees, and then they lost touch. This experiment is designed fix the legend by playing whale songs to the trees and dousing them with whale oil and whale bones. Experimenting based on an unsubstantiated legend, and using taxpayer money to do so, is not something that seems propitious. In contrast to the author’s claim, this research is indeed based on a legend, and one that we know to be false.
Furthermore, the article’s focus on “double-blind control tests” as the sole measure of validity ignores the inherent limitations of Western scientific methodology in understanding and appreciating the complexities of Māori knowledge. Mātauranga Māori operates on a different epistemology, one that values lived experience, intergenerational knowledge transmission, and the interconnectedness of all things.
Here the author is blowing smoke. How do you establish that a treatment of any sort works unless you compare the effects of the treatment with a group not given it, and blinding the experimenters as far as possible (i.e., those who measure the effects wouldn’t know if the trees had had whale songs played to them or whether they were doused with whale oil and bones).
The “different epistemology” of MM appears to be based not on rigorous experimentation, but on wish-thinking. Don’t forget, too, that modern science is also based on “intergenerational knowledge transmission”. As for the “interconnectedness of all things,” I don’t see how that claim is of value in this study. My boss Dick Lewontin once countered an “interconnectedness” claim by saying something like “Yes, but this doesn’t mean that the emissions of a supernova has any effect on my gardening.” The defense continues:
The article’s dismissal of the project as “science-dissing” also reveals a lack of understanding of the historical context of Māori knowledge. The colonization of Aotearoa (New Zealand) has led to the suppression and marginalization of Māori knowledge systems. The “Whale Song” project represents a significant step towards reclaiming and revitalizing this knowledge, and should be viewed not as a rejection of science, but as acomplementary approach to addressing the challenges facing our environment.
The article’s reliance on anecdotal evidence to support its claims, such as the anonymous scientist’s “concerns,” further undermines its credibility. It is essential to approach discussions about Māori knowledge with respect, humility, and a willingness to engage in meaningful dialogue rather than resorting to prejudiced and discriminatory language.
The “Whale Song” project, while perhaps unconventional, represents a valuable opportunity to explore the potential of Māori knowledge in addressing environmental challenges. It is crucial to approach such initiatives with an open mind and a genuine desire to learn from different ways of knowing.
Science is based on dispute, attempts to falsify, and constant criticism. Here the author argues that indigenous knowledge should be immune to that type of criticism, as it’s is seen as “disrespectful.” (The implication is that it’s also bigoted.) The very motivation for this project—a claim that walking whales were friends with kauri trees—is so ludicrous that the project should be dismissed unless there are preliminary modern scientific tests showing there’s even a hope that it would work. Modern science is indeed at work on kauri blight, and has even identified the organism causing it. To me, that gives more hope of a cure than does this project.
Conclusion:
This article serves as a reminder that genuine engagement with Mātauranga Māori requires a willingness to move beyond Western-centric perspectives and embrace the richness and complexity of indigenous knowledge systems. Only through respectful dialogue and a commitment to understanding can we truly appreciate the value
Once again, the author tries to render indigenous science immune from criticism because it’s “rich and complex”. That alone is not sufficient to sacralize indigenous knowledge. If we’re to move forward with real knowledge about the world, projects like this one should be subject to exactly the same kind of criticism as is modern science.
Once again I quote former pastor Mike Aus. Bolding is mine.
When I was working as a pastor I would often gloss over the clash between the scientific world view and the perspective of religion. I would say that the insights of science were no threat to faith because science and religion are “different ways of knowing” and are not in conflict because they are trying to answer different questions. Science focuses on “how” the world came to be, and religion addresses the question of “why” we are here. I was dead wrong. There are not different ways of knowing. There is knowing and not knowing, and those are the only two options in this world.
If you want to know if whale songs and whale oil and bone cure kauri blight in nature, there is no option save the experimental tools of modern science.
I’ve wasted a lot of time on this post, for there are many initiatives like it that need criticism, and time is limited. But then again, the taxpayers of New Zealand need to know that they’re wasting their money on projects like this one.
And, I wonder, why did the site take down the post—twice? Was it too embarrassing to publish? Your guess is as good as mine.
Professor Jerry Coyne is an American biologist known for his work on speciation and his commentary on intelligent design, a prolific scientist and author. This article was first published HERE
37 comments:
A few years ago when a roadshow was touring plugging counter kauri disease measures, one of the paid staff (the obligatory maori component) explained in all seriousness how he had no dieback on his farm because he regularly prayed for and alongside the trees! ( I was ticked off by one of the audience for a slightly demeaning response!!)Their website has been altered to make critical obseravtion about the cosy sinecure employment difficult. Dieback has spawned numerous make work reports by funded (maori) "consultation" groups. I do not think any have studied the straightforward non mystical influence of untouchable taonga wild pigs.
Yes, you have spent considerable time on this Jerry, and I am most grateful that you have. This nonsense needs calling out for what it most certainly is.
Invariably, the taxpayer is footing the bill in an economic climate where things really are dire and almost every respect of our core societal infrastructure is in a parlous state. This goes to the heart of the woke stupidity that is overrunning the West and our country, especially. Thank you again for your sterling efforts.
I very much liked your takedown of what the Maori world (or at least a selection of its so-called academics) thinks of as ‘science’ and ‘special knowledge’. I believe that, paradoxically, their hubris comes a from a sense of inferiority. Maoris must be aware that the 10000 or so years that separates the stone age to which they are forever associated, with the civilising influences that British colonisation gave them, showed up the disparity in Maori epistemological and technological achievements. Thus, they could never catch up. As a consequence, and counterbalance they now elevate their nature study and associated animism to an intellectual level that just sounds ludicrous in the 21st century. When Maoridom at last recognises the debt owed to colonisation and accepts that being dragged from the Palaeolithic to the nuclear age actually benefitted them, we may see less of the nonsense you so ably described.
Watched the video of the Kauri /Whale treatment. I live in the area where this was filmed. I have not heard any reports of dieback affecting the large Kauri of Paweranga.I did not see any dieback effects in the trees in the video. None of the people in the video were botanists either amateur or trained. Botany is the forgotten science.I own a property classed as a significant natural area which has a number of kauri growing on it.So far there is no dieback in this area. If these guys are to be taken seriously and if they even WANT to considered more than charlatans why aren't thy offering their "magic" to the Waipoua forest????????????????????
Yes, you have spent significant time on this topic Professor Coyne, and I (and I'm sure a great many of my compatriots) am most grateful for someone of your calibre to take the time to dismantle and call this nonsense out for what it most certainly is - nonsense, and of the first order.
Invariably, the taxpaying public is footing the bill for this (what you term) "mishegass" and one that it can ill-afford. In a country where woke stupidity is overrunning all our educational institutions and much of our other societal infrastructure is in a parlous state, yet here we genuflect at almost every turn to this stone age spiritualism and mythicism - all at significant cost.
By you calling this out, it gives some of us hope that commonsense might soon prevail and so, on behalf of all clear thinking New Zealanders, you have our sincere gratitude.
Thank you.
Maori nonscience trumps imperical western science again.
Why do we tolerate that ?
Why do we have to pay to prove the bleeding obvious that this nonscience can't work ?
The most loaded question of all is "Do you have a bias towards Western Science and dismiss indigenous science?"
There is no such thing as 'Western science'. Ask any Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilian, South African, whatever whichever, scientist. There is just 'science'.
Indigenous science is an ethnoscience. Has its own rules, full of myth and magic, fine and well, great for anthropology, not science.
The last question is dead easy to answer: "Do you believe non-Māori should control the destiny of Mātauranga Māori?" No, definitely not. Your cultural heritage, not mine. In fact, keep it right out of my face.
Oh I love the term "Snake Oil Salesman" as it so aptly describes the rip off in NZ that is the MM way of thinking and all the similar voodoo nonsense. I defer to the Definition of snake oil salesman from the Cambridge Business English Dictionary © Cambridge University Press which states: "Meaning of snake oil salesman in English someone who deceives people in order to get money from them: He was dubbed a "modern day snake oil salesman" after he ripped off thousands of internet customers." It is all about the MONEY and our governments of all political persuasions have been allowing us the taxpayer to be ripped off and damn it, continue to do so.
Just doing some research of my own. Rawiri Waretini-Karena murdered a man in 1987, after somebody told him the man was a sex offender. Waretini-Karena blames the murder on colonialism. He says in (in Te Ao Maori News), "If I sold you a car and I had cut the brakes, and you went off and drove it and you crashed, who is responsible? You for driving, or me for cutting the brakes?"
Te Whare Waananga o Awa nuiaarangi Indigenous University in Whakatane gives out doctorates in courses that last between three and six years, depending whether the study is part time. No prior academic qualifications are necessary. It receives generous Government funding, at a time genuine universities are struggling financially. The fact this body calls itself a university and gives degrees has caused complaints, largely from Maori leaders of other Iwi who say it Maori students are misled, but Jacinda fixed that problem with legislation.
Southern Cross News claims to be
"a prominent news outlet in New Zealand, known for its comprehensive coverage of national and international events". It's only regular "journalists" are Joe Trinder and Rawiri Waretini-Karena. I've never heard of it before. It's articles are all opinions rather than News and they are all from a Maori point of view. A bit like some other "news" outlets.
And yet some complain why we ever had the Tohunga Suppression Act 1907. It was introduced for good reason and it seems we need a new, more encompassing version now, for the charlatans are back.
Maybe all that is needed for the kauri is a human sacrifice. These have been part of numerous cultures as a way of appeasing the gods.
Dead Right, Barend.
Science is science. It has no ethnicity.
It is observation, deduction, concluding.
I just laugh out loud, when I think of how this Maori fantasy world would have fitted in to my three year tertiary studies at the New Zealand School of Pharmacy.
Weell.. Pharmacology the "Maori" way, Pharmaceutical Chemistry the "Maori" way ??
I mean - literally laughable.
Science is left-brain thinking. It is useful for some things but not others. IMO a lot of people are brainwashed into solely a left-brain POV - as if their right brain had been lobotomised - making them as logical and spectrumy as Spock.
A right-brain view is also valid. It exists in complete contrast to the left. It is not logical and reductionist - rather it is holistic and non-linear. It is social and emotional and somewhat mysterious. It is a different way of knowing. It is not impersonal and universal like left-brain science - it is personal and localised and unique like any social group.
The Maori view on healing the Kauri trees is plainly right-brained. It is valid even though it confuses and aggravates left-brained geeks and nerds.
Here is an example of right-brain healing. When I was a child I was sick and had the day off school. My grandmother visited and brought me some broken-up pieces of chocolate easter egg. She read me Where The Wild Things Are. She loved me. I believe that helped me get better. Love is a powerful healer.
I'm sure left-brained cultists would dispute my claim because love is unquantifiable, unmeasurable, unlocatable and pseudoscientific. It's not empirical so it's not real - right? Wrong. It just doesn't fit the narrow scientific model of the world - which after all is just an abstraction.
I believe that Maori are healing the forest with love. If you don't believe me then don't bother lecturing me about the scientific method; instead go and find a mother or a nurse or someone who can teach you about the healing power of love.
Everyone knows this to be fantasy nonsense - perpetrated by the countries best liars.
Luxon, just shut in down now if you have the gonads .
Good grief. The healing power of love says Sea_Breeze!! So how does that work when your loved one dies from any one of the myriad of bacterial, viral or fungal infections that have plagued the human race since the dawn of time. I daresay COVID accounted for a few loved ones, or at least until modern science discovered a vaccine that actually worked better than love.
Hard to think of a bigger pile of unproveable crap than what seabreeze just wrote
In response to Sea breezes comment: You'll never know of it was the chocolate, your grandmother's love, or time that fixed you, as you never tested them individually via the scientific blind method
Yes - you are quite right. SeaBreeze's comments are basically "right brain (!)" babble.
Is Mishigas the same as marsh gas?...also who did he murder ...more
details please...it probably boosted his mana...I would be afraid to disrespect him..speaking of disrespect...the maoris are masters of that
>You'll never know of it was the chocolate, your grandmother's love, or time that fixed you, as you never tested them individually via the scientific blind method.
Those things cannot be tested individually. That's my point - science cannot go there. Even if you tried to test for an approximate answer, how will you account for one grandmother's love in comparison to another's? You can't.
To say that love doesn't heal requires a lot of science-kool-aid brainwashing to deny an obvious but intangible reality.
Sea_Breeze, it seems that MM also needs a large pile of koha to make the love work.
Completely over all this Mātauranga Māori nonscience nonsense. However, if it is financially supported solely by the Māori "economy" and/or individuals out of their own pockets (i.e. Not using funds effectively sucked out of the taxpayers' hard earned) then fair play, go for it, fill your boots, who could possibly object. Well, only those poor Māori souls who might other wise have benefited from that so called Māori economy that was, at the end of the day, enabled by sucking the public purse dry.
>"... an obvious but intangible reality"
Ain't that an internal contradiction, Sea-Breeze?
Spock didn't understand love. He was an emotional retard - all science and no heart. The part he couldn't grasp was perfectly obvious to everyone else. So no, not an internal contradiction.
Someone doesn't understand what an internal contradiction is.
The words 'obvious' and 'intangible' when applied to the same object ('reality') cancel one another out.
Nothing to do with Spock, mate. Wrong again.
Look up oxymoron.
Dreams are obvious and intangible. Is dreaming a part of reality?
Part of a subjective reality, not one that can be independently verified.
All your arguments are tautological in the sense that they are saying the same thing in slightly different ways. The argument relies on an a priori assumption which is taken for granted.
For those confused by all this convoluted and rarefied thought maybe they need a dose of Dr. Rosemary Hipkins who is Chief Researcher of the NZCER. Academics really can get themselves in a twist. She is author of "Teaching for Complex Systems Thinking" and is going to give a seminar on 'What Every Teacher Should Know about Binary Thinking' . I believe she is one of the main architects of MM in the NZ Science syllabus replacing hard science with myths.
>Part of a subjective reality, not one that can be independently verified.
Yup, literally what I said.
Maybe science will develop a machine that can measure love and dreams and the weight of thoughts and how they impact people and trees or whatever. It is a possibility and as unimaginable as a radio a few hundred years ago.
One thing I can say is that the ex-pastor's comments lend no clear help to the discussion because it is assumed that Christian faith is just another superstition like Maori superstition. I can assure you that is not the case since modern science is based on Christian belief in the laws of science and logic and free speech. All these result from a system that has been put in place long before any of us existed.
FFS just turn the money tap OFF. These idiots will soon find something better to do.
Re: Sea Breeze 11:26, I rest my case! The fellow has clinched it for me!
Re: Anon above, "belief in the laws of science and logic and free speech" are a product of the Enlightenment although they have their roots in ancient Greece. They certainly weren't at all evident during the Middle Ages.
Aside from bringing her darling son Chris into the World which was bad enough, Rose has done and continues to be allowed to do untold damage to our education system.
Here is a quote from with a warning first issued by one of Western Civilization's greatest atheists, the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. 'The ideas that define Western Civilization, are based on Christianity.' ( this includes freedom, equality , free speech and the laws of nature). Because some of these ideas seem to have taken on a life of their own , we might have the illusion, we can abandon Christianity while retaining them. This illusion, Nietzsche warns us is just that . 'Remove Christianity and the ideas fall too'. Nietzsche also warned that, with the decline of Christianity , new and opposing ideas would arise. MM is surely a result of this .
>"The ideas that define Western Civilization, are based on Christianity.' ( this includes freedom, equality , free speech and the laws of nature)"
That's why these norms prevailed throughout the Middle Ages and into the 17th century.........
Yeah, right.
Have a Tui instead.
Comments on this are gold. Thought Spock was a character from a TV show. then again, shows how much I know.
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