A parent in New Zealand recently discovered that their child had been reciting prayers (karakia) to Māori gods five times a day at a standard state school. Not a kura. Not a Māori immersion school. A regular taxpayer-funded school that is, by law, supposed to be secular.
When that parent tried to have their child excused, they were made to ask - repeatedly - before being granted what should have been an obvious right from the start.
This is the story Steve Gibson brought to my show, and it’s one that is playing out in classrooms, council chambers, and workplaces across New Zealand right now.
Who is Steve Gibson?
Steve Gibson is a first-term elected councillor on the Hastings District Council and a former police officer in both New Zealand and Australia. He is not a firebrand. He is not extreme. He is, by his own description, a ‘centrist’ - someone who grew up in an era when New Zealanders of every background simply got on with each other.
But within weeks of joining his council, he found himself confronted with a NZ flag laid on a gallery floor with the words “please walk on me” written on it - and staff encouraging visitors to do exactly that. Then came powhiri after powhiri - council meetings held at marae clocking up unnecessary council expenses, in the middle of a cost of living crisis. And five karakia a day.
When the school story landed in his inbox, he posted about it. The post hit a chord on both sides of the situation. The trolls came. He was called a racist.
“What the bottom line is for me - if Christ was present what would he do? He wouldn’t partake in prayers to foreign gods, I tell you that right now.” - Steve Gibson
Watch the full conversation here…(from 7pm tonight)
Do we have cultural and religious freedom in New Zealand?
Let’s be honest about what’s actually being asked here. A child - whose parents were given no choice in the matter - is being required to stand, face the class, and recite prayers to Tangaroa (god of the sea), Tāne Māhuta (god of the forest), and other Māori atua (gods). Five times a day.
“It was a standard state school paid by the taxpayer, and we were supposed to be secular. Christians don’t like praying to Māori gods, whether they’re Māori or Pākehā, it doesn’t really matter. And if you don’t know what you’re saying in a language you don’t understand, you don’t know what you’re praying to.” - Steve Gibson
This is not a fringe concern. The New Zealand Bill of Rights guarantees freedom of belief and freedom of expression. International human rights frameworks affirm that parents are the primary educators of their children and have the right to choose the moral and religious environment in which they are raised.
And yet here we are - where asking whether five karakia a day in a state school is appropriate somehow makes you a racist.
It doesn’t. And most New Zealanders know it.
Steve spent his career in the police bending over backwards to support the culture. He learned to speak basic te reo, and was even on maori TV news at a crime scene. He genuinely respected the maori language and culture. Many of us did.
Who is driving tribalism and division in NZ?
The issues Steve and I discuss are not coming from most Māori communities at the grassroots. It’s coming from the top down - through the teachers’ unions, activist organisations, and ultimately through international frameworks like UNDRIP and UN policy that have been deeply woven into our legislation and education curriculum.
When the Minister of Education recently moved to remove some Te Tiriti references from the Education and Training Act, the backlash didn’t come from parents. It came from the unions. The teachers’ unions - who are not parent-led, are not democratically accountable to your family, and operate as activist groups inside our schools.
The jar is being shaken deliberately. As I said to Steve - put 100 red ants and 100 black ants together and they’re fine. Shake the jar and they start fighting each other. The question isn’t ‘who started it?’. It’s: ‘who shook the jar'?’
What you can do
Steve’s advice is simple...
Stand up.
Stop sitting silently in the room while things are recited over you that you don’t believe in. Stop letting activist groups speak for your family’s values. You may feel alone but you’re not. Plenty of us see what’s going on.
Parents - know your rights. No state school can impose a religious practice - including karakia as prayer - without parental consent.
- Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children. Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), Article 26 (3).
- The States Parties undertake to have respect for the liberty of parents and, when applicable, legal guardians to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions. - International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), Article 18 (4).
- Article 5 - States must respect the rights and duties of parents to provide guidance to their children in exercising their rights.
- Article 14 - Affirms children’s freedom of thought, conscience and religion, AND the rights and duties of parents to provide direction in the child’s religious formation.
- Article 18 - Gives parents primary responsibility for the upbringing and development of their child.
Follow Steve on Facebook. He is one of the voices being brave enough to say this publicly, and he needs numbers behind him. Share this video, share this article, and start the conversation in your own community.
Because the silent majority has been silent long enough - and if we don’t start speaking now, we may find that we no longer know what our culture is anymore.
Watch my full interview with Steve Gibson. If this resonates with you, please share it widely. Expect trollers but don’t worry about them… they just demonstrate that we’re over the target. They troll because they don’t want us speaking the truth… not because we are wrong.
Penny Marie NZ, Independent investigative reporter, researcher, speaker and coach. Founder of Let Kids Be Kids.
22 comments:
According to the education act the school MUST ask parents in writing for permission to get your child praying (any religious activities)
Schools are flat out lying by saying that karakia and pepeha are not religious - just like in our messed up public service.
The definition of karakia is a religious incantation or prayer….just the act of it even when it doesn’t have religious content makes it a bloody prayer.
I’ve just had a marathon argument with my own school board on the matter.
Elizabeth rata has a lot to say on this too.
Even some teachers have a lot to say on this - on the common sense side of the issue.
Fight to keep this maori religious indoctrination out of schools please!
In the woke culture, permission does not exist. There is only approval or veto from one
( minority and superior) side only towards the inferior partner.
Very simple. What part of this hierarchy do you not understand?
This is a superbly written warning and describes perfectly the destructive work of the activist minority in New Zealand. A case in point “Who gave anybody permission to call New Zealand Aotearoa?” No one. The minority activists took it upon themselves to insult the majority with this slang. This little jar of red and black ants co-existed as one once until the activists decided, by themselves, to shake the jar. It’s time to fight back and regain what we are losing.
>" ... if Christ was present what would he do? He wouldn’t partake in prayers to foreign gods..."
Steve Gibson isn't playing it smart. He is pitting one religion against another. That immensely weakens his position.
I am happy to cooperate with anyone, believers included, who wants to put an end to this bullsh*t, but I like to side with people playing it smart. KEEP IT SECULAR. That way nobody can hit you with a charge of hypocrisy.
The Education and Training Act 2020 in New Zealand guarantees a secular state education and gives parents rights regarding religious instruction.
Key aspects of the secular right under this Act include:
Section 97 dictates that teaching in all state primary and intermediate schools must be "entirely of a secular character".
Opt-In Requirement: The 2020 Act updated requirements so parents must provide written consent for their child to take part in religious instruction or observances.
This means any state school wanting pupils to participate in religious activities must ask all parents in writing if its ok for them to do this!
Parents have got to start pushing back!
1 - Write to your kids teacher and tell them you don't want your kid participating in karakia and pepeha expercise.
2 - Write to the principal, or include the pincipal in that request.
3 - Notify the school board that teachers are in breach of the education act.
Then you can experience what i have experienced, which is the twisting of their actions into orwellian knots to justify themselves and their actions as being righteous.
They get their instructions from the education department - or at least that is what we're told.
But it is a choice that these teachers and principals and school boards have - they don't have to ram Maori religion down our kids throats - they choose to.
But keep pushing back - eventually someone will open their eyes.
By all means object to religion, Māori or any other variety , being introduced into state schools which should remain strictly secular. But don’t make your child pay a price for your stand on principle.
Some years ago an acquaintance of mine insisted his daughter be removed from class when some sort of religious observance was taking place. She had to sit outside while the rest of the kids mumbled along. Children are highly susceptible to feelings of being excluded from the group. So needless to say the poor girl felt humiliated.
I wonder how many of those pupils obediently mumbling a prayer to a god they’ve never encountered in a language they don’t understand will be alienated rather than indoctrinated. More importantly, will they also be alienated from an education system which wastes their time?
Dave Lenny
I love my Maori gods. Without them, no rain would fall. Come on readers, do you really want endless droughts?
Thanks Penny Marie and Steve Gibson for your courage and insight. I also agree with Barend Vlaardingerbroek's and Terry Coggan's comments. Fight the good fight yourselves, but don't make your child your proxy in the battle. No offence intended, true believers, but I was a regular attender at Sunday School and Bible Class until I decided of my own free will that religious beliefs were well-intended primitive superstitions, with moral codes which happened to match my own. The years of gentle indoctrination didn't override my intellect and did me no harm. In fact it gave me a better insight into the philosophies of religious people, which helped me understand human behaviour better.
I am a devout Pythonist, as inworthy of debate Monty Python. I believe a daily reading and discusion about a Python sketch or movie clip or from any film related to any of the cast would be informative . That includes the Ripping Yarns series starting with Tompkinsons Schooldays. They provide a parody of life . Glory to Cleese Amen
I do think we must take the heat off individuals, especially children, by making a united legal challenge to this practice. I'll join.
In the 70s school children sung songs at primary school with Māori lyrics.
It was no big deal.
They picked up some of the language.
Although the national anthem remained pure English.
Personally, I think it's a terrible song and a whiny tune and never liked it and having it sung in Māori adds nothing.
However - as for reciting incantations - Do it in your own time and not the public domain.
NASA was sued when Apollo 8 astronauts read from genesis.
Artemis was a secular mission.
New Zealand should remain secular and don't fob me off that a Karakia is not a religious prayer.
Quote from the post above
“And yet here we are - where asking whether five karakia a day in a state school is appropriate somehow makes you a racist.”
The real point here is that the school and the teaching system is the racist, and by default almost, the children wherever are having racism embedded in their psyche.
It is said that Islam brainwashes its young by having them chant and memorise whole portions of the Koran. How different is the karakia indoctrination?
I am in full support of a secular school system and the separation of church and state. Having said that I would point out that the whole idea of Maori gods and land worship is totally at odds with anything to be found in Christian/Catholic teaching. Christianity has proved itself quite able to survive and thrive within secularism, without detriment to either side of the equation.
Sadly the people doing the indoctrination, don't realize that they themselves have been indoctrinated.
Even worse, are the people who allow this indoctrination to start and continue.
Where are our elected (and only our elected) government people, and what are they doing about it ?
The cynical side of me suggests that it might stop before the election and start all over again in the new term.
Clearly it would be opportune to produce our New Zealand-equivalent of the film “Mr Nobody against Mr Putin” to showcase to our wider public that our education has nothing to learn from the soviets in the matter of political indoctrination.
Christianity has been so weakened in this country that people don't even know no1 commandment says-'you will have no other God but me' .
Christianity says you bring curses on yourself if you willfully violate commandments .
By the way what do Muslims , another monotheistic religion , think of this ? Can we get them on our side . Unlike most Christians these days they can become very defensive about their beliefs? How many NZ school now have Muslim prayer rooms?
Tell me where animism as in Maori religion has produced a better civilization? All I can think of is Haiiti where animism has led to a destroyed state with fearful occult practices.
Have just read about Maori occult practices , before European. Fairly powerful stuff .
Is that what we want here ?
>"people don't even know no1 commandment says-'you will have no other God but me'"
So saith the deity of a Bronze Age desert tribe. Nothing to do with us, though..... well, certainly not with me.
>"Christianity says you bring curses on yourself if you willfully violate commandments"
I wear a necklace of garlic cloves. I am reliably informed that should ward off any 'curses'.
>"By the way what do Muslims , another monotheistic religion , think of this ? Can we get them on our side?"
Ah, you're thinking now! Yep, Muslims are fanatical monotheists - in fact, they regard Christians as polytheists because of the trinity doctrine. But they recognise the Christian superspook as being the same as theirs - they are after all both derived from Judaism. (Yes, they added their own embellishments, making the two god-concepts not quite the same, do don't start down that track.)
I have said above and will say again that I will happily cooperate with believers to get rid of this crap. The reason the marxofascists are getting away with it is that the opposition to them is fragmented. Too many conservatives are religious believers and will not contemplate teaming up with believers of other faiths, not to mention heathens like yours truly. It is time for them to adopt a more pragmatic approach.
Hilarious how none of the sentiment from the comments here are very Christian at all. Us humans really are a curious bunch.
We ll Barend and Anonymous 9:49PM, according to AI The Quran accepts the the core moral and ethical principals of the 10 Commandments, as they align with Islamic teachings -one God.
While the Mosaic Law is generally seen as fulfilled by Jesus- 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated in the New Testament as relevant to believers. .Most Christians accept the commandments as moral law but lived through grace .
As an explanation even if you aren't very religious you could state you follow most of the 10 commandments as a moral code and one God happens to part of it . I have satisfactorily used similar arguments to a radical Maori . It is not Bronze Age stuff but what a significant number of people on the planet believe.
Anon 1240, AI told me I was the father of Dutch political firebrand Eva Vlaardingerbroek, so I don't have much truck with it!
We are straying from the purport of the article so I'll keep my comments brief.
"Core moral and ethical principles" can be defined as one likes and found in just about any writings on ethics and morality from ancient times on. The ethical and moral principles of the Tripitaka "align" with Islamic teachings but all that shows is that decent behavioural norms are not confined to any one group. After all, we are a social species and like all social species from aardvarks to zebras we have rules by which our societies are run.
Four of the 10 'commandments' have nothing to do with interpersonal relationships but are about a Bronze Age desert tribe and its god. So, nothing to do with the rest of us. The other 6 have to be looked at in the light of to whom they were addressed. They concern intratribal relations, not with people of other tribes. The prohibition on adultery applies to Jew-Jewess couples only; a Jew was free to make use of sex slaves captured from other tribes (see Numbers 31: 17-18 for instance). The same text makes mass murder of people of other tribes OK (one of several OKs in the OT), as "murder" in the 6th 'commandment' refers to the unauthorised killing of other Jews. "Bearing false witness" is a legal expression and refers to perjury; but a Jew could only be taken to court by another Jew.
We won't dwell on the last one but I'd be interested to know whether 'coveting' your neighbour's donkey is a summary offence or an indictable offence.
No, I most certainly do not live any aspect of my life according to these barbaric norms. If I want guidance on ethics I will turn to the Far Eastern religious philosophies which are far deeper than lists of do's and don'ts most of which don't apply to me anyway. "What a significant number of people on the planet believe", so what? For one thing, 99% of them have no idea of the sociocultural context of those 'commandments' - they apply modern century definitions to words like 'adultery' and 'kill'. For another, how many people believe something tells you nothing about whether it's true or not. Everyone used to believe the Earth was flat, y'know!
PS I forgot the 8th one - don't nick other Jews' stuff - quite OK to loot and pillage the property of other tribes, of course.
It's all in there black on white for those who can be bothered looking beyond the dozen or so cherry-picked verses they bandy about when feeling particularly self-righteous.
BTW erratum: the word 'century' after 'modern' above should not be there. I initially wrote "21st century" then changed that to "modern" but forgot to delete "century". Silly old chap that I am.
For those who wish to hear a Christian theologians and philosophical view on these tricky questions listen to 'Can we reconcile the Canaanite Conquest with a God of love ? ' Christians do face these issues in great depths and do not gloss over them ,often spending decades wrestling with them writing books like "Did God really command genocide ?,' , 'Is God a Vindictive Bully?' and 'Is God a Moral Monster?' .
One perspective is not sufficient.
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